Saturday, October 19, 2019

How consciousness does webs its path into the life?

This post is kind of guest post by Savyasanchi Ghose inspired by our discussion relating to life and consciousness. I transformed his doc file to html file and added some after-comments. I strongly encourate to look the video.

About: The following commentary is inspired by a video I saw on Youtube. This video shows an artificial egg hatching experiment, in which a researcher tries to hatch an egg outside the egg, he periodically puts some chemicals into it and then at last life came to it. These are the questions in which I tried to know what is the life and consciousness in this case, what is the ‘notion’ of life here, these questions were posted by me on Facebook and answers were provided by a great Finnish theoretical physicist Matti Pitkänen.

  1. How the life did came to the ‘chicken’?

    The basic question is about what "consciousness" is. If consciousness is indeed a property as materialistic science teaches, the question is about how this property emerged. In TGD framework consciousness is not a property but in the quantum jumps re-creating the sub-universe of self. "Consciousness" is re-creation, not a property: carve this to my tombstone ;-). Therefore one must ask how the first moment of recreation emerged.

    In zero energy ontology (ZEO) self has two parts: the un-exchanging part - core selfness - corresponds to untangled subsystem located at passive boundary of causal diamond (CD) not changed in "small" state function reductions. Changing part of selfness, "Maya" corresponds to the changing part of state at the active boundary of CD changing in each "small" state function reduction having also interpretation as time measurement. Active boundary of CD also drifts farther away from the passive one giving rise to the experience about flow of time and experienced time-clock-time correspondence.

    "Big" state function changes the roles of active and passive boundaries of self and means re-incarnation: self reincarnates with opposite arrow of time. This is the moment of birth. Subsequent "small" state function reductions mean generalized Zeno effect for permanself but the changing part of self in active boundary of CD gives rise to sensory experience, cognition, etc...

    What this re-incarnates self-corresponds is an interesting question: I think the construction of model for solar cycle (what it has to do with consciousness ;-)?) led to a considerable progress here (see this).

    Biological life involves also many other aspects. For instance, information is essential aspect and here adelic physics predicts evolutionary hierarchy in one-one correspondence with extensions of rationales. The dimension of extension which corresponds to effective Planck constants is the measure for the evolutionary level and determines the maximal conscious information content.

    One could require that system replicates. As a matter fact, replication of 3-surface analogous to 3-vertex is Feynman diagrammatic occurs already for elementary particles which are 3-surfaces rather than points in TGD. On could require that the system has some minimum repertoire of quantum programs - standardized mental images- representable as superposition of space-time surfaces that I call preferred extremes. In ZEO quantum states are analogous to these
    quantum programs.

  2. I understand consciousness as a parameter which differentiates between a dead and a living being, not as a capability of an individual to make decisions or to sense, How did it come to the new born chick?

    Here I disagree. Any system can have conscious experiences: it must correspond in ZEO a system, which is de-entangled from the rest of the world at passive boundary of CD. Every living being has conscious experiences. It is a matter of definition whether one regards electron as living. One could define that the extension of rationales involved must be non-trivial or that it has some minimal complexity.

  3. Morphogenetic fields are the fields that guide the developing embryo, how did they arise here? What is the nature of these fields here? And how they differ from the fields present when egg hatch naturally.

    In TGD framework magnetic body (MB) is the intentional agent controlling biological body (egg) and receiving sensory input from it by analogs of EEG in various frequency scales and realized as dark photons with h_eff=n*h_0. MB would be the counterpart of morphogenetic fields. MB has hierarchical structure having parts in in various size scales. Scales include size of Earth and even larger scales. The larger the part the larger h_eff=nh_0 and the higher its "IQ" and the higher the level in control hierarchy. Biological body, the egg, would be near the bottom. Elementary particles are the ultimate bottom.

  4. What happened exactly at t=0 when any movement started inside the gelatin, how this conscious force originated inside there? Are chemicals creating some kind of consciousness? Well if this is so, then why do we deny that consciousness is generated by brain?

    Gelatin is born or rather, reincarnates, in "big" state function reduction. Re-creation without breaking the laws of deterministic physics occurring in every "small" state function reduction is the counterpart of conscious force.

    Conscious experience is in the moment of re-creation, and not a property of some existing entity. One cannot say that consciousness is generated: there is no consciousness. Chemicals are not conscious, nothing is conscious. The re-creation of the quantum states of chemicals gives rise to conscious experience at this particular level of hierarchy.

This was the little article sent by Ghose. Here are some after-comments of mine.
  1. The egg must have been fertilized so that it would have developed to a chicken in any case so that life was already there. Actually everything can be said to be living in TGD Universe, only the level of conscious intelligence varies. The experimenter perhaps made the process of evolution of the embryo faster.

    It is a pity that the text was not in english: I would like to know what the added chemicals were. Also it remained open what the real time scale for the process was.

  2. What I did not emphasize enough is the evolutionary process involved. In TGD picture it corresponds to the gradual emergence of algebraic complexity as extensions of rationals assignable to subsystems of this developing egg emerge. Increasingly larger values of effective Planck constant pop up. The system or develops magnetic body getting more and more complex and it begins gradually to control the developing embryo. This miraculous but quantum jump is literally a miracle: a recreation of the quantum Universe.

  3. What is needed is metabolic energy since to increase heff and to keep its values same requires energy output: heff tends to decrease spontaneously by liberating energy. Egg itself can provide part of metabolic energy. Mother hen provides also metabolic energy by hatching the egg. Perhaps the purpose of added chemicals was to provide more metabolic energy to fasten the process. Is addition of proteins serving as source of metabolic energy enough? One might ask whether also the magnetic body of moghet hen is involved.

For a summary of earlier postings see Latest progress in TGD.

Articles and other material related to TGD.


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