Thursday, December 15, 2011

Comparison of M89 hadron physics and Higgs as explanation of 125 GeV bump

The comments of Lubos and Andrew Oh-Willeke to blog posting about LHC data release inspired some comments on my side. These hastily typed comments were imprecise and I decided to write an improved version collecting the main points to a more organized structure. I want also to write about these topics to clarify to myself some important open issues in my own approach and I will do my best to debunk myself in the following. I will very probably make imprecise and even wrong statements. This is work in progress. Apologies.

1. The basic issues

  1. The basic issue is whether the signal at LHC is a compelling evidence for Higgs or not. My claim is that it tells only that there is scalar or pseudo-scalar producing the signal and that under rather general assumptions this signal can be even quantitatively equivalent with the Higgs signal for the recently studied signatures.

  2. Enthusiasts also forget that the signal cross section has features which do not favor its interpretation in terms of Higgs. Exclusion of Higgs does not mean the exclusion of signal! The clear structures around 135 and 145 GeV have not disappeared, there is a wide bump like structure in the entire region 110-150 GeV, and there is structure at both sides of 300 GeV. All these structures should disappear with increased statistics if Higgs interpretation is correct. We do not know whether this will happen and the natural question is whether one could interpret these structures by replacing Higgs paradigm with something else.

  3. Higgs is also disfavored by profound theoretical reasons. It is just around the border of instability against the decay of vacuum. Could this criticality be a signal about the need to replace Higgs with something else? Presumably a microscopic description of particle massivation (provided by TGD already 15 years ago in terms of p-adic thermodynamics). Or are we happy with Higgs phenomenology which only reproduces instead of predicting?

2. Brief summary

The main results hitherto - preliminary of course - are following.

  1. Various decay rates of pion like states of M89 hadron physics can be estimated using the generalization of partially conserved axial vector hypothesis (PCAC) stating that the divergence of the axial vector current is proportional to pion field. The proportionality constant is fπmπ2. The divergence of axial current equals to the sum of instanton densities for electro-weak gauge fields and color gauge field plus the divergence of axial vector currents for u and d type quarks assuming that they are massive: this divergence is by Dirac equation proportional to the mass of the quark.

    The contribution of more massive quarks is absent, which is quite a remarkable difference as compared to the standard model Higgs for which the decay amplitudes to massive quark pairs are the most important ones by the proportionality of Higgs-fermion coupling to quark mass. This holds true in M4 effective QFT picture: one can hope that it is a good approximation. It is is indeed known to work in orfdinary low energy hadron physics and p-adic fractality suggests that the same holds true for M89 hadron physics .

  2. If the generalization of hadronic sigma model involving u and d type is accepted then fπ can be identified as the negative of the vacuum expectation value of sigma field: fπ=-v. The inspection of the decay rates of Higgs in standard model and those predicted by PCAC /Iztykson-Zuber is my source) shows that their structure is identical. This strongly suggests that by replacing Higgs vacuum expectation value by a suitable multiple of sigma field vacuum expectation it might be possible to reproduce all decay rates of standard model Higgs. This would apply also at the level of amplitudes.

    This kind of duality like relation would not be terribly surprising since the structure of these two models is very similar. This would allow to estimate the decay rates of pionlike state to various channels and have very similar results for the decay rates to weak gauge bosons and also to the states produced via the decay to virtual gauge boson pair decaying to quarks or leptons. The direct decays to other than u and d quark pairs do not appear in the lowest order.

  3. Assuming X=fπ/mπ=91/140= .65 as for ordinary pion, the decay of pion-like state to gamma pair implied by PCAC is under very natural assumptions by a factor 1.54 times larger that the decay reate of Higgs. The observed signal cross section for gamma pair production by 125 GeV state is by the same factor about 1.5 higher than that predicted by the standard model! The magnitude of fπ=-v= -81.3 GeV is very near to W boson mass 80.4 GeV. fπ=-mW would give m(π89)= 123.6 GeV which is second favored value for the mass of the resonance.

    This does not yet allow to shout Heureka! and claim that M89 pion hypothesis beats Higgs hypothesis. The production rates for Higgs and pion like state need not be the same. If however the production by fusion of electroweak bosons and gluons dominates and is described by PCAC (action would be just then one has excellent hopes that the production rates are indeed identical. There is also associated production in which W or Z boson emitted by a scattered quark in either proton emits Higgs boson. Also this vertex would be governed by PCAC when Higgs is replaced by M89.

  4. The experimental data suggests that Higgs signal is much smaller than the predicted signal above 127 GeV but has bump like structure and at bumps larger than the effective signal from the standard model background. Also the p value telling the probability that standard model background is able to explain the signal cross section has sharp downwards peaks at two other masses about 127 GeV. TGD interpretation would be in terms of pion like states. This interpretation makes sense only if the proportionality coefficient X in fπ=-X mπ is considerably large than its value for ordinary pion and lowest pion like state given by Z= 91/140∼1.54. This reduces the various couplings of pion like state by a factor 1/X2. This is of course possible but one should have a good explanation for why X increases with the mass of pseudo-scalar state.
One can clearly say that sigma model for low-lying M89 replaces Higgs mechanism as an approximate QFT description in TGD framework and a duality like relation between sigma model description of the meson decay amplitudes and those of standard model Higgs is highly suggestive.

One can criticize various aspects of the TGD vision about both ordinary and M89 hadron physics. This is good for the simple reason that counter arguments are the best manner to make progress if one is on the right track.

  1. TGD SUSY is also in central role if one believes that higher pion like states are there and have an explanation in terms of SUSY. 25 GeV pion like state would be apart from mixing effects spion consisting of squark pair. The assumption is that SUSY is essentially unbroken and that mixing of the quarks implies that mass squared matrix is non-diagonal having element between meson and smeson states.
    1. The first possibility is that second eigenstate is tachyonic due to very strong mixing proportional to αs and must be excluded from the spectrum.
    2. Second - aesthetically more attractive- option is that second eigenstate indeed is there and quite recently I indeed found evidence for narrow resonances with quantum numbers of pion with mass differences between states typically in the range 10-40 MeV. Some of these might be SUSY states.

  2. The experimental evidence suggests that pion has satellites but that their number is much larger than SUSY alone predicts. but that their number is much larger than SUSY alone predicts. The bumpy structure of Higgs-like signal cross section suggests the same for M89 hadron physics. There are two alternative but not mutually exclusive explanations. The color magnetic flux tubes for light quarks have length of the order of Compton length and one could assign to them a string tension and IR Regge trajectories. Another explanation would be in terms of Shnoll effect implying that probability distributions with single peak decompose to distribution with several peaks. The TGD based explanation of Shnoll effect suggests that it is universal and could take place even at the level of particle physics.

  3. A strong objection against TGD SUSY is that there is no missing energy signal which should result from the decays of squarks to quark and spartner of W boson decaying in turn to lepton and sneutrino. This objection forces to consider a possible modification of the recent belief system. The covariantly constant right handed neutrino could act as super gauge symmetry annilating physical states. This reduction of SUSY is standard mechanism of SUSY breaking. The color octet CP2 partial wave of right handed neutrino would generate superpartners. Color confinement would eliminate the decays producing right handed sneutrinos as missing energy. What would be nice is that leptohadrons could be interpreted in terms of color octet sleptons (dark in TGD sense)TGD SUSY would be realized in a similar manner both for leptons and quarks and would have been discovered for decades ago. This is of course a speculation and p-adic mass calculations should be carried out to check whether this proposal really works.

I do not bother to type more and encourage the reader to find the details in the article Higgs or M89 hadron physics? or the chapter New Particle Physics Predicted by TGD: Part I of "p-Adic Length Scale Hypothesis and Dark Matter Hierarchy".


At 6:15 AM, Anonymous Orwin said...

Compton himself once wrote a paper saying collisions never happen, because electrostatic forces intervene. What results is a neighborhood of dense charged matter in the form of a parabolic potential well (potential -v!).

By now there is reason enough from large surpluses of diphotons to add the range of diproton states, with energy displaced to angular momentum. This could explain the tail of observations as low as 113GeV, if I remember rightly.

The situation thus resembles an excited crystal, a phenomenon familiar to the ancients, and treated by Johannes Trithemius in terms of spirits and the crafting of talismans, with close attention to diurnal Shnoll-type variation.

A paper attributed to Paracelsus offers alchemical alloys against annual variations. Some view the Schussler cell salts in this light. This is makes some sense in view of bacteria trapping protons with rhodopsin.

I'm pretty sure the spins, flavous, etc. Can be used internally to produce enzymes capable of digesting target molecules, with much trial and error, of course. Over far more inverse femtobarns of data than we will ever collect.

This does suggest rather strobly that these "instantoned" virtual crystals can hybridize with passing charges...

At 6:26 AM, Anonymous Orwin said...

Please note:

A. The spirits involved were archangels, purely rational beings, hence familiars of primes, Platonic solids and the like.

B. The Church is not minded to comment here: the case of Marsilio Ficino vs. Inquisiion refers: case discharged.

At 7:50 PM, Anonymous said...

Dear Orwin,

the spontaneous and somewhat irritated question of the physicists inside me is "What on Earth Paracelsus has to do with Higgs?". Perhaps we should try to stay in topics of the posting and discuss esoteric issues somewhere else;-).

At 8:24 PM, Anonymous said...

A modest proposal. If some-one wants to discuss esoteric issues such as Paracelsus, archangels, and spirits and relate all this stuff to physics done at LHC, I strongly encourage to do this at some other forum better suited for this purpose.

At 3:42 AM, Anonymous Orwin said...

No comment on Weyl semi-metals. Bye.

At 4:27 AM, Blogger Ulla said...

That was too bad. What is it with you, Matti? You should be open-minded? I liked some of the thoughts of this man, but I don't know who he is. Does it really bother you that he talks a little different from usual? You are yourself not so usual. I am sorry that I encouraged him. I thought he could learn me something. He has published on Vixra.

Jack Sarfatti (another 'pseudoscientist') has looked at the Higgs mechanism

At 5:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The "annual variations" re Paracelsus remind me of this stupid question: do the LCH experimentalists account for Shnoll effect, or can that effect the results and if so, how exactly? You say:

"Another explanation would be in terms of Shnoll effect implying that probability distributions with single peak decompose to distribution with several peaks. The TGD based explanation of Shnoll effect suggests that it is universal and could take place even at the level of particle physics."

Wouldn't Shnoll effect be present at experimental data from the get go at all levels, beginning from all (pseudo-random!) propability calculations? I'm reminded of Rupert Sheldrake's caveat, "unless there is something weird with our propability math"...

At 7:18 PM, Anonymous said...

Dear Ulla,

open mindedness is often completely misunderstood in New age circles. Open mindedness does not mean totally random thought streams. If my blog posting about different explanation for what is regarded as signal for Higgs is accompanied by discussion about the relationship between Higgs and angels and spirits, skeptics get excellent weapons against me.

I am convinced that many of the spritual Higgsers have good intentions but we must remember that this is merciless information war in which the establishment does its best to destroy me. Connecting Higgs with esoteric teachings would the the best possible weapon I can give to the establishment.

You should look at some pages of skeptics where they do the best to debunk TGD using arguments which never even remotely refer to the content of TGD. What someone says in my blog is however used as a signal that TGD is a crackpot theory. And TGD as esoteric teaching is the fulfillment of the skeptic's dreams. We are living in a horrible world, Ulla. This is minimal self defense. Nothing else.

At 11:28 PM, Blogger Ulla said...

Ye, I have looked at those skeptics pages, a real horror to read. How can someone claiming to be educated be so dumb?

Sorry, my nose again. But look at the Sarfatti link.

At 11:53 PM, Anonymous said...

Dear Anonymous,

Thank you for an excellent question. I replied already but for some mysterious reason the reply disappeared from the blog. This is one of those mornings when reality is not what rational thought expects it to be....

I try again. As I tell in your citation there are two alternative explanations for the possible structure appearing in what is interpreted as Higgs signal. "Infra-red" Regge trajectories with mass scale of about 20 GeV assignable to stringlike color magnetic flux tubes accompanying p-adically scaled up u and d quarks of M_107 hadron physics is the first one.

What is so remarkable that there exists three-year old experimental discovery about exotic states of pion and nucleons and this supports this hypothesis. If the discovery is real it kills QCD as a theory of strong interactions and provides strong support for TGD since the notion of color magnetic flux tube is they key notion in the vision about non-perturbative aspects of strong interactions. The notions like jet, quark gluon plasma, hadronization and fragmentation reduce to the notion of flux tube and string model type description emerges naturally as also string-parton duality.

I am in somewhat non-diplomatic mood and confess that I feel shame for colleagues. It is scandal that a potential discovery of this caliber has remained completely un-noticed by colleagues. These fellows receive an excellent salary for their job and this would obligate them to show at least a bit of real intellectual curiosity and follow what is happening in their field of science. It would be even worse it this finding were silenced intentionally.

An alternative and not necessarily exclusive explanation relies on Shnoll effect. I have tried to invent objections against this option and here are the basic objections found hitherto.

a) If the p-adic prime assignable to quark or hadron characterizes quantum arithmetics it is not distinguishable from ordinary arithmetics since the integers involved are certainly much smaller than say M_{107}=2^{107}-1. In the case of nuclear physics Shnoll effect involves however small primes so that this argument is not water tight. For instance, if p=107 defines the quantum arithmetics, the effects would be visible in good enough resolution and one might even expect variations in the bump structure in the time scale of year. For nuclei the effect correlates with astrophysical periodicities: could this be the case even for nucleon so that would have direct correlation between astrophysics and elementary particle physics.

This unexpected correlation is actually not new in TGD Universe: the secondary p-adic time scale defining the time scale assignable to the causal diamond of electron corresponds to .1 seconds which defines fundamental bio-rhythm and corresponds to a photon wavelength of order Earth circumference.

b) The idea about a state with large width splitting into narrower bumps does not fit nicely with the stability of proton.

At 5:36 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Second causality of Shnoll effect link to manifesting traits of "arrogance of particle phycisists" (who know everything better than ancient alchemists!) engaging in their information wars? Sure, we are all social beings and get easily drawn into hierarchical power games... ;)

Back to the question about meaning of Shnoll effect to experimental data. The question was much simpler than your highly theoretical answer: given that much of all lab data relies on Bohrian assumption of randomness of quantum phenomena (which Einstein objected) such as radioactive decay, to what extent such data could be just artefact of Shnoll effect, together with basic assumptions based on that data? What is the relation between Shnoll effect and so called experimenter effect?

At 7:45 AM, Anonymous said...

The fate of scientific dissidents is to get a label of some kind of New Ageist or alchemist. TGD inspired theory of consciousness has strong connections with "eastern philosophies" and to my opinion the western view about consciousness is extremely primitive.

I want however to make absolutely clear that I am guru of some esoteric discipline. I know from a bitter experience that skeptics as jesuits of Big Science use everything what I say - or some-one else at my blog says - against me.

Returning to Shnoll effect. I see not return from quantum world to classical. Einstein was both right and wrong: objective reality of classical physics still makes sense but only in plural. Bohr was both right and wrong: single objective reality is not enough but it is nonsense to give up the notion of classical objective reality completely. At the level of principles there is incredible economy.

TGD based view about consciousness and quantum provides new view about the relationship between geometric and experience time and in this manner resolves the conflict between their views.

To my view we can safely forget hopes about getting rid of quantum. Shnoll effect is something genuinely new which cannot be described in the existing conceptual and mathematical framework: number theory and p-adic physics is needed. Also consciousness theory requires p-adic physics as a correlate for cognition. I talked about this earlier and mentioned how 2-adic integers emerge naturally as a space-time correlate for Boolean cognition.

If the TGD explanation of Shnoll effect is correct, it involves p-adicity in an essential manner. Therefore also cognition so that there might be a connection with what you call experimenter effect. I understand that experimenter effect relates to the effect of expectations of experimenter to the measured system.

William Tiller has done very interesting work relating to the effect of intention. Do I remember correctly?: intentionally imprinted electrical devices is what he studies. I have discussed a model trying to explains his findings. Not surprisingly, magnetic body is in key role as also electromagnetic signals propagating along magnetic body.

It is amusing that the notion of magnetic body at hadron level is now becoming almost synonymous with non-perturbative aspects of strong interactions! And few months ago I realized that dark energy is magnetic energy of magnetic body and entire cosmological evolution can be understood in terms of magnetic flux tube structures.

At 9:49 AM, Blogger Ulla said...

"I am NOT a guru" should it be, a typo.

Old memories? I can understand you are careful, but maybe there are other ways to say it without loosing him. Better to say at once, or even delete the comment, and tell him to do it in a better way. Your earlier try left so many questions open. I was confused.

Sarfatti: "Dark Energy is Back-From-The-Future Horizon Hawking Radiation".
A back-scattering? This is the new cone of future massless (magnetic?) light? Dark light (even Carroll has a post about dark light)? This is taken from the new thesis I linked about. Tamara Davis,

In fact measurements are always done in the past? Especially in biology, but also in classic physics. As you say this is the perturbation, giving time? Think a horizon in the future, and Universe inside a black hole.

Compare to

A skewed Planck scale (mass:length?)? The symmetry is emergent in the sphere (3D)? Then also the Higgs mechanism is so.

At 10:43 AM, Blogger Stephen Crowley said...

Matti has a series of excellent points here, it is information warfare and they will use every snippet they can to attack, it is best to not give them fuel by posting things that can be taken wildly out of context. I apologized profusely for posting the UFO crap earlier, for the record, I made that stuff up as an elaborate publicity for my upcoming sci-fi writing endeavor. It's best to stick to the science on the blogs... maybe another forum can be had for those who enjoy esoteric topics (I do.. but I found that they do not translate thru blogs and a lot of it even if interesting isn't so practical... ;) My real reason for posting is to say that while seaching for the paper "Search for Low-Mass Exotic Mesonic Structures; II. Attempts to Understand the Experimental Results" I found that the .ru server it was located on was not responding... after some more google usage I fund it but it was somewhat cumbersome to get so I uploaded it at or the short url

At 12:58 PM, Blogger Stephen Crowley said...

Also I was looking at my thing the other day and lo-and-behold a document was mysteriously yet pleasantly and surprisingly shared with me by a fellow who I had not heard of prior to seeing the document. It is entitled "The simplest realistic explanation why renormalizations may work and why their luckily working is in fact a bad luck for QFT physics
understanding" by Vladimir Kalitvianski it can be found at or and seems to contain some very practical and important wisdom. I have not completed reading it yet because I get paid for writing software, not "fixing the renormalization group implementation" or whatever its called, so I share it here so you folks may peruse at your leisure. He also has a blog at Peace, Stephen

At 8:21 PM, Anonymous said...

When I started to work with the idea about hierarchy of Planck constants I referred to a talk of a physics Nobelist - maybe it Glashow?- about the fact that we do not understand the physics of water. I wrote also to blog. After few weeks the URL did not respond anymore!

For colleagues I am like a sin of youth: no one wants to admit that I really exists, am terribly alive, and produce ideas with terrific rate.

This brings in my mind Marlon Brando movie "Avenger" (from finnish to english directly) that I saw at Sunday evening. Towards the end of the movie Marlon was avenger only in the eyes of the evil man of the story- sheriff by the way;-).

In the eyes of colleagues I am an avenger. Just because I do exist. They have made me out-of-law and they done everything to silence me. The reason is brutally simple. They are terribly afraid that the truth about what happened for theoretical physics during last decades could be revealed during their lifetime.

It is terribly dangerous to start to kill good ideas: this these fellows tried to do and failed.

At 8:35 PM, Anonymous said...

To Ulla:

I am not enthusiastic about emergent space-time. It is a Muenchausen trick. There are many similar Muenchausens at the market. "There is no time" is another such trick.

Consciousness is only a faschionable buzz word and no one will talk about consciousness after the materialistic view about reality has been finally accepted and there are no humanistic pseudo sciences anymore (some finnish science sage revealed this vision of future).

Instead of emergence of space-time from entanglement I would speak of space-time topology as a correlate for entanglement and more generally about quantum classical correspondence.

At 11:46 PM, Blogger Ulla said...

In this case there are only an illusion of emergence? The back-scattering is no true emergence.

It would have a meaning for the interpretation of Higgs mechanism? There has always been a Goldstone boson-like thing earlier, no singular Higgs.

Also the reason we have a 4D world and massivation at 125 GeV (if this is true) must mean something. Like our Universe is balancing on an egg, the same as alpha tells us. Because there is no other possibility? This is like a window-effect (of symmetry?), which is a topological thing. The transcendent pi is interestingin this connection.

At 9:51 AM, Blogger ThePeSla said...

Have a great Holiday, Matti

I gave the Higgs some further thought and in casual reading of Riemann in he original I tried to relate things to the generalization of your and Kea's frameworks- so do visit my blog.

I am probably closer to Leo Vyuk on some of this- but I tend to see these Hadrons much like you do from long ago in my primitive days of understanding. I believe, as I said, that if you include information that takes awhile for some change of state, what I call hyperbolic, your calculations are correct for the Higgs- the range from 124 to your p-adic.

You are a neoteric guru.

The PeSla

At 2:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is the relation of causal diamond to Landauer and Bennet showing possibility of unlimited computation without heat loss by reversible computation (

At 7:05 PM, Anonymous said...

Good Chrismas to Pesla and also others.

At 8:22 PM, Anonymous said...

Dear Anonymous,

In TGD framework one should answer precisely to many fundamental questions before even trying to answer your question since many new concepts are involved. What one means with computation/ with time and the duration of computation/ with entropy/ with second law, ... One can only construct models for computational processes.

My view about computation is near to what one could call conscious computation. I just try to list the basic new elements brought by TGD in modeling of computational process. I also pose questions.

1. Irreversibility is the property of zero energy state rather than only dynamics of quantum jumps. It is possible to assign entropy to single particle- not as a member of ensemble- but as quantum state through M-matrix which describes time-like quantum entanglement.

This means following. The positive energy part of zero energy state has well defined quantum numbers, particle numbers, charge, etc... Negative energy part does not unless M-matrix is trivial. Time reversed states are in principle possible. What does this new view about irreversibility mean from computational point of view.

2. p-Adic mathematics allows number theoretic entanglement entropy which can be negative. It makes sense for rational and even algebraic entanglement probabilities. Negentropy Maximization Principle in this case does not force complete reduction of entanglement in quantum jump but can even force its generation. Number theoretic entanglement could characterize living systems.

The pessimistic generalization of second law says that this makes possible to generate negentropy locally but compensating entropy must appear somewhere else.

What could it mean for computation to increase negentropy locally and send the compensating entropy to paper basket? Do biological computations achieve this as it seems (living matter as polluter)? Is aging due to the fact that biological body serves as a garbabe dump? How would this kind of dirty computations differ from classical and quantum computations?

3. Qubits represented by spin 1/2 states are crucial for quantum computation. In TGD framework many-fermion states correspond to spinors of world of classical worlds and fermion are ideal realizers of qubits. Also fermion number 1/0 represents bit. In zero energy ontology this representation can be realized without giving up fermion number conservation. Zero energy states have interpretation as Boolean statements. What could this mean from the point of view of conscious computations?

2-Adic numbers are correlate for bit sequences having possibly infinite number of digits. This generalizes to p-adic case. How p-adic physics relates to the modeling of computational process?

To be continued....

At 8:29 PM, Anonymous said...

Continuation to Anonymous:

The time taken by computation is central notion and one classifies computational tasks using the time taken by them. One must consider measures for the duration of computation. Also the notion of irreversility closely relates to the notion of time.

In TGD Universe one distinguishes between two times: subjective and geometric.

1. The number of quantum jumps taken by computation is one natural looking measure with respect to subjective time. It is possible to talk about the number of quantum jumps with respect to geometric time and it is proportional to metabolic rate which is physical observable and in living matter indeed correlates with the subjectively experienced rate of flow of time.

2. Second measure would be geometric duration assignable to computation. But what one means with the arrow and with the flow of geometric time? I have proposed following.

a) Every quantum effectively shifts the quantum superposition of space-time surfaces inside CD "downwards" (or "upwards") so that new space-time surface effectively emerges from either end of CD. The system does not move in future in M^4xCP_2 but space-time surfaces shift qjump by qjump towards past.

b) Since this new and not yet perceived piece of space-time surface represents "news", Negentropy Maximization Principle generalized to the hypothesis that conscious entities are curious, would imply that mental images (conscious entities) tend to gather near the boundary of CD where the news come. This would explain the localization of the content of sensory experience to narrow time interval and also the arrow of geometric time.

c) Note that it is possible for the arrow of geometric time defined in this manner to alternate. This would mean that mental images would tend to be generated at upper or low boundary of CD. Could this be like living a life again and again.

3. This science fictive view about geometric time inspires a couple of science fictive ideas about irreversible conscious computation in TGD sense. Should be taken as entertainment only;-).

a) I have half-seriously asked whether it might be possible to do very long computations instantaneously with respect to geometric time by sending signals from the upper boundary of CD to the lower one and back. Kind of time mirror. Could this give rise to a sequence of quantum computations in which geometric time does not flow?

Certainly not unless the arrow of geometric time identified in the proposed manner alternates.

Interestingly, in psychotic states the change of the experienced arrow of geometric time is reported: could one think that this kind of change of arrow could take place in conscious computation and reduce the net geometric duration of the computation and thus make it possible to perform "impossible" computations.

Since the arrow of geometric time alternates, one can argue that there is no irreversibility with respect to geometric time on average: the system which got older in given step gets younger at next step: with respect to fixed ("normal") direction of geometric time. Could this be seen as the analog of irreversible computation?

b) Could one imagine time-arrow flip-flop. State function reduction for positive energy part, negative energy part, positive energy part ..... Mental images concentrated at upper/ lower/ upper... end of CD. Could this define the analog of irreversible computation? This could make sense if the U process in the beginning of each quantum jump can be neglected. Is this possible in some approximation?

At 1:21 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good Yule to You and Big Thanks for your answer. Couple more questions.

>>>It is possible to assign entropy to single particle- not as a member of ensemble- but as quantum state through M-matrix which describes time-like quantum entanglement.<<<

This is very hard to decipher into something meaningful in terms of classical understanding of entropy to which most readers are conditioned to. How communicable is your idea? Is it a generalization of entropy with decoherence?

Also at first glance "zero energy state" sounds counterintuitive jump from more philosophically approachable (metaphysical) concept of "zero energy ontology".

>>>a) I have half-seriously asked whether it might be possible to do very long computations instantaneously with respect to geometric time by sending signals from the upper boundary of CD to the lower one and back. Kind of time mirror. Could this give rise to a sequence of quantum computations in which geometric time does not flow?<<<

This was the idea that motivated the question about a-entropic (äntröpik? ;)) reversible computation and CD - preserving the - negentropic? - answer of computation on some other layer of CD's without entropic loss of information in any part of the system. Informationally inflating/evolving dynamic cosmologies?

To offer some anecdotal evidence to support your speculation, I have also experienced during altered state of consciousness an "instantaneous" healing/liberating energy/information surge in a "gap" in both linear time experience and proprioseptic bodymind-sense. Mental image (linked to the physical sensation of instantaneous healing of some now forgotten Karmic burden) of vast computation of "karmic"/causal information compressed into instantaneous gap in psychosomatic time experience. This was just one momentary experience during session of Ayahuasca shamanism, most other experiences felt more durational.

PS: a good friend once said that it helps when you understand that all pains are just information. My own intuition and body-sense suggests "solidified" mechanically recurring patterns that block free flow of information. In other words, data-banks of energy/heat, that can be released in time of need - as in tummo-yoga, reiki and related sensually and consciously entropic phenomena.

Nothing is lost, everything is precious.

At 3:28 AM, Anonymous said...

To Anonymous:

I cannot but try to communicate my idea;-).

a) The starting point is zero energy ontology. The matrices defining entanglement between positive and negative energy parts of zero energy states are the basic objects. I call them M-matrices.

b) I take what one could call square root of thermodynamics: motivations come partially from hyper-finite factors of type II_1. M-matrix is square root of hermitian density matrix and expressible as its hermitian square root times unitary and universal S-matrix commuting with the hermitian square root of density matrix. MM^dagger is density matrix. This is nothing but matrix generalization of the decomposition of complex number to a product of modulus and phase. Different M-matrices from rows of the unitary U-matrix.

The Hermitian density matrices define infinite-D Lie algebra and multiplied by powers of S-matrix one obtains the analog of Kac-Moody algebra: the state space is representation of the symmetry generators of S-matrix and also U-matrix. States define the symmetries.

The notion of zero energy state is consistent with crossing symmetry and with positive energy ontology when one limits the consideration to the positive energy part of zero energy state.

For me this kind of speculations are a thought game that I enjoy. Also some personal experiences serve as motivations. For instance, the experience about the reversal of the arrow of time.

Maybe the pain in body is the price for information/negentropy. Perhaps our bodies tend to serve as dump pits and therapies like reiki help to unload them.

At 1:49 PM, Blogger Stephen Crowley said...

I can find no mention of this movie "Avenger" starring Marlon Brando on the internet. It's a shame because I really enjoy movie and book recommendations since advice from trusted sources is the preferred way to avoid the marketing junk from the advertisers. What year was the movie released?

At 8:21 PM, Anonymous said...

"One-Eyed Jacks" is the original name of the movie. Marlon Brando directed it himself and played the key role.

"Obsessed by hatred" would be the finnish name in english, not "Avenger".

At 11:32 AM, Blogger Ulla said...

the role of the antagonist will be played by Victor Stenger’s recent book The Fallacy of Fine-Tuning: Why the Universe is Not Designed for Us.
Stenger claims that all known fine-tuning cases can be explained without the need for a multiverse.

Many of Stenger’s claims will be found to be highly problematic. We will touch on such issues as the logical necessity of the laws of nature; objectivity, invariance and symmetry; theoretical physics and possible universes; entropy in cosmology; cosmic inflation and initial conditions; galaxy formation; the cosmological constant; stars and their formation; the properties of elementary particles and their effect on chemistry and the macroscopic world; the origin of mass; grand unified theories; and the dimensionality of space and time.

The 125 GeV would belong to this class too? Is there an link to c.c.?


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