Saturday, April 12, 2014

What is EEG made of?

The usual classification of EEG frequencies by EEG bands is more or less a convention and the definitions of various bands vary in frustratingly wide ranges. In a more ambitious approach bands should be replaced with some substructures identified on basis of their physical origin and function. In the proposed framework this is possible. This identification of substructures of course applies only to that part of EEG from which evoked potentials, noise, and possible other contributions are subtracted.

In the article What is EEG made of? a TGD inspired model for EEG as a communication and control tool of magnetic body is discussed.

  1. Sensory data are communicated from cell membrane to magnetic body as Josephson radiation and induced transitions at harmonics of cyclotron frequencies determined by the mass number A and charge Z of ion in question (also electron and proton are included) plus the local strength of the magnetic field Bend having nominal value Bend=.2 Gauss in the simplest situation.

    Communications take place at resonance so that one has fJ= ZeV/heff=fc= ZeBend/2πAmp, heff=2k× A× h, where A is the atomic weight of the ion for the fundamental frequencies a more general resonance condition for harmonics reads as mfJ=nfc. This condition is a new ingredient to the earlier model and is extremely restrictive - especially so if one assumes only bosonic ions forming Bose-Einstein condensates. Also electron and proton are needed to represent frequencies which are of order kHz or higher: this is true for hearing for which frequency range to be represented varies up 20 kHz.

  2. Information is coded in frequency modulations of Josephson frequency induced by neural activity and feedback from the magnetic body coming via DNA at harmonics of cyclotron frequencies. Frequencymodulations have emotional content in music, which suggests that the "sensory experiences" of magnetic body defined by the Josephson radiation have emotional content dictated by the frequency modulation.

    Also the variations of resting potential induces frequency modulations and the quantum model for hearing suggests that the variations of the voltage could define analog of music scale consisting of discrete spectrum of resting potentials corresponding to cyclotron frequencies of ions belonging to the octave 10-20 Hz and having frequencies fc∼ 10 Hz in alpha band as basic frequency.

  3. Basic facts about EEG at various stages of sleep and the fact that octaves of 10 Hz frequency appear as resonance frequencies together with music metaphor suggests that EEG can be regarded as superposition of frequencies spectra very much analogous to frequency spectra associated with music scale. In particular, octaves of heff=2km and Bend suggested also by p-adic length scale hypothesis appear. In the simplest situation the EEGs associated with various ions would be time scaled versions of each other making possible "stories" as representations of same events in various time scales: this is believed to be a basic ingredient of intelligence.

  4. The model leads to a detailed identification of sub-bands of EEG in terms of cyclotron frequencies assignable to bosonic ions. One can understand the basic features of various EEG bands, why conscious experiences possible occurring during sleep are not remembered and the four stages of sleep, why beta amplitudes are low and tend to be chaotic, the origin of resonance frequencies of EEG. Also a model for how Schumann resonances could affect consciousness emerges.

    Music metaphor allows to develop in more detail the earlier proposal that nerve pulse patterns defined a languages with "phonemes" having duration of .1 seconds and obeying genetic code with 6 bits. Also the right brain signs metaphor can be given a detailed quantitative content in terms of the analog of music scale associated with the resting potential.

To sum up, the model gives very strong quantitative support for the notion of magnetic body and makes several testable predictions.

For background and details see the chapter Quantum model for EEG or the article What is EEG made of?.


crow said...

what do you think Matti ? said...

Cells phones produce radiation in GHz range and I would expect that radiation at these frequencies can have effects as false control signals. I remember that Nokia "studied" these effects and announced that there indeed are effects but they are positive! This was at the period when Nokia's leaders had already lost contact to reality and started to behave extremely arrogantly. Media
of course took the hook.

Ollila, the former leader of Nokia, is now in Shell and leads a campaign trying to convince that climate change is not real and oil is the most environment friendly fuel that one can imagine. Quite recently he was also caught from tax fraud which had lasted 10 years.

To my opinion the fundamental challenge is not so much particular kind of practical problem but the miserable ethical and moral standards of people calling themselves top executives.

Fractality said...

EEG during sleep paralysis offers more hints.

Also, sleep deprivation leads to delirium. This would lend credence to the notion that sleep is the period in which collective feedback forms narrative and a connection to the consensual reality. A period dedicated to TQC? said...

To Fractality.

This is true. I consider a mechanism by which magnetic Mother Gaia could communicate with
magnetic body by sending signal to DNA inducing perturbation of membrane potential then communicated to to magnetic body during delta wave sleep.

Theta and delta bands would also naturally correspond to conscious experience during sleep about which we cannot remember much. The lack
of deep sleep would therefore have non-desirable consequences.

Anonymous said...

Dear Matti,

In TGD framework, if we collide fermion and sfermion together, the result is right handed neutrino. This is an interpretation for right handed neutrino as generator of SUSY as I understand.

In standard SUSY, anti-commutation relation between Q and Qbar is equal to generators of Poincare algebra. For the corresponding relation In TGD, one can just replace Q by right handed neutrino and Qbar by anti-(right handed neutrino)?

The idea of Smolin and Tony Smith about SUSY is interesting. Do you think they are in a wrong way? “supersymmetry is more subtle, and related to Spin(8) triality (as Lee Smolin suggests in hep-th/0104050) in such a way that the “ordinary” fermions of the standard model are in fact (subtle) supersymmetric partners of the standard model gauge bosons.”
Hence in this view, there is no need for new particles as superpartner. said...

Dear Hamed,

blog does not show your question that I got in email. This has happened many times and I do not know the reason. I glue the question below and answer it in separate comment.

Dear Matti,

In TGD framework, if we collide fermion and sfermion together, the result is right handed neutrino. This is an interpretation for right handed
neutrino as generator of SUSY as I understand.

In standard SUSY, anti-commutation relation between Q and Qbar is equal to generators of Poincare algebra. For the corresponding relation In TGD, one can just replace Q by right handed neutrino and Qbar by anti-(right handed

The idea of Smolin and Tony Smith about SUSY is interesting. Do you think they are in a wrong way? "supersymmetry is more subtle, and related to Spin(8) triality (as Lee Smolin suggests in hep-th/0104050) in such a way that the "ordinary" fermions of the standard model are in fact (subtle) supersymmetric partners of the standard model gauge bosons." Hence in this view, there is no need for new particles as superpartner. said...

Dear Hamed,

the idea is beautiful. This would raise dimension
8 to a unique position since one needs 8-D vectorial representation of SO(3,1) and spinorial representation and its conjugate.

In TGD 8-component spinors and their conjugates can regarded as 8-D representations of tangent space SO(1,7). One could slash imbedding space gamma matrices between second quantized leptonic induced spinor field and covariantly constant right-handed neutrino regarded as c-number to get vector octet. One however obtains also the conjugate of this vector with opposite fermion number. In this sense subtle SUSY is realised in TGD.

This does not however mean that ordinary bosons and fermions would be related by this restricted
SUSY. On there other hand, the modes of induced spinor field generate much bigger badly broken algebra (by CP_2 geometry) and one can say that all the states associated with partonic 2-surface form a very large SUSY multiplet with badly broken SUSY.

The analog of ordinary SUSY seems to come out from TGD but I am not able to tell which the p-adic mass scales associated with sparticles is. The special features of right handed neutrino force even to ask whether the particle and particle are distinguishable experimentally - even if they have same mass. Here fresh young brains would be needed;-). said...

Dear Hamed,

the complex character of H-spinors implies that vectorial representations appear as vector octet and its conjugate.

If one uses octonionic representation of gamma matrices with non-complexified octonions one obtains the analog of Majorana representation and one obtains only single vector octet it one uses c-number spinors.

Ulla said...

The reason we forget our dreams so quickly is that the brain wakes up = gets disturbed too quickly, and its brainwaves rises above alpha. One theory worth consideration. Then memories are like closed loops trapped in its topological state, insensitive to its surroundings of much shorter waves.

Anonymous said...

Matti, I found that paper about partially hyperbolic transverse things

. —
In this paper, we describe a process to create hyperbolicity
in the neigh-
bourhood of a homoclinic orbit to a partially hyperbolic tor
us for three degrees of freedom
Hamiltonian systems: the transversality-torsion phenomenon said...

To Ulla:

I think that the waking of brain involves the cane of EEG band from theta and delta to alpha, beta, gamma and this means that the communications to parts of magnetic body defining "us" are established. Different parts of magnetic body would communicate with biological body during wakeup and sleep. During sleep it would be obviously cognition rather than sensory input and motor control that would dominate. During dreams all bands might be active: this is an obvious test.

Maybe remembering of dream short time after wake-up is due to the simultaneous presence of theta, delta, and higher bands. I cannot formulate this more precisely now. said...

To Stephen: Thanks for the link.

Anonymous said...

Dear Matti,

Thanks for the last answer. "sorry for delaying"

“State function reduction proceeds for a given CD as cascade of state function reductions downwards in the the fractal hierarchy of CDs inside CDs inside...”

I try to write what I understand: there are two kind of entropic entanglements:
1-The spinor field associated with every CD is entangled with the larger CD. For example spinor fields of electrons in an atom are entangled with the spinor field associated with the atom.
2- Entanglement between spinor fields of those CDs that are in the same scale. For example electrons inside the atom can be entangled with each other.

For the negentropic entanglement, are there two kind of them like the before?

The Cascade of state function reduction starts for a given CD and end at negentropic entanglements or bound states. As I understand, because of electric potential between the electrons, they form bound state and reduction of state function can’t occur for them. this is correct?

At the process of cascade of reductions, state function reduction occurs for both kinds of entropic entanglements? If this is correct, after the cascade of reductions, the CDs will not be conscious about their subCDs, because they are unentangle. This doesn’t make any problem? said...

Dear Hamed,

1. I usually think about entanglement in terms of WCW spinor fields rather than induced spinor fields. The value of WCW spinor field corresponds to a Fock state of fermions for a 3-surface carrying fermions at partonic 2-surfaces). Entanglement is between Fock states as in quantum field theory.

2. I do not see any specific objection against entanglement between different length scales. Say between magnetic body and corresponding 3-surface.

3. For bound states the reduction should not occur because it would destroy the bound state. Reduction can occur for entanglement between free states.

4. Two electrons can form bound state in some circumstances (super-conductivity involving interaction with other particles). If they are free Coulomb potential is repulsive and does not allow this.

About last point I have different opinion.

*Sub-CD and CD are not tensor factors of higher-D state space (Fock space). If they were CD could be conscious of sub-CD and have mental images.

*Sub-CD or topologically condensed space-time sheet is not sub-system in the usual sense (tensor factor quantum mechanically).

Classically it is clear that two space-time sheets containing topologically condensed smaller space-time sheets can contain connecting flux tube between the smaller ones. There could be entanglement meaning sharing of common mental image assignable to the two small space-time sheets fused by flux tube. The larger space-time sheets would be disjoint in their characteristic resolution and would not be entangled in this scale.

Maybe this is the correct manner to put it: there is hierarchy of entanglements in various scales defining scales of resolution.

Inclusion of von Neuman algebras might allow hierarchy of resolution dependent descriptions.

Feel free to criticise.

Anonymous said...

Dear Matti,


“The arrow of Geometric-Time is different for positive and negative energy states.”

I can imagine the geometric time arrow between lower boundary and upper boundary of CD. In really it refers to time arrow of space-time surface in the CD. But what does it means the geometric time arrow for one of them in lower boundary or in upper boundary?
does it means that there is a time like coordinate in both boundaries of CD when we come to account the contribution of CP2 to the induced metric of light like boundary?

Matti pitkanen said...

Dear hamed,

I try to answer from my ipad. Sorry for possible typos.

The arrow time is basicaly due to asymmetry between boundaries of cd. The reductions occur repeatedly o either boundary. The boundary can change and in living systems this can occur.

At spacetime level the counterpart would be dissipative time development made possible by non-determinism of kaehler action. If several time evolution becomes non-unique the most entropy producing option is selected as in hydrodynamics. This would be spacetime correlate for quantum non-determinism. This would define arrow of time at spacetime level.

There would be however an exception. Suppose different branches of multifurcation correspond to same entropy (density matrix proportional to unit matrix). Second quantization allowing several branches simultaneously as "manyparticle state" could correlate with large heff.

This defines arrow of time at spacetime level.

Anonymous said...

Dear Matti,

Suppose without using holography that projects states in CD*CP2 to lower and upper boundaries of CD*CP2, trying to investigate about energy of Dirac spinors in the CD*CP2.
In CD*CP2 Dirac Spinors contain both positive and negative energy states in superposition. In other words one can say that positive energy states correspond to those space time surfaces that have opposite arrow of time in comparison to negative energy states corresponding to other space-time surfaces?
Hence in this view, there is superposition of both arrow of time for space-time surfaces in CD*CP2?

Imagination about living on the boundaries of CD*CP2 is difficult for me:). Can you help me to understanding that how we are living on the boundaries? Or this is just mathematical tool for convenient?

just after the cascade of reductions from cosmological scales downward to small scales, is there cascade of preparations from small scales to cosmological scales? said...

No. Positive and negative energy states do not superpose. Arrow of time corresponds is determined by the boundary of CD at which the reduction takes place and reflected in the fact that corresponding part of state has well-defined quantum numbers (eigenstate). There is also delocalisation in CD:s moduli degrees of freedom for second boundary (superposition of CDs with other boundary fixed).

The energies are associated with the imbedding space spinors characterising ground states of super Virasoro representations. Space-time spinor fields define the oscillator operators in terms of which WCW gamma matrices are expressed.

There is largest CD from which the cascade begins. It can vary. It need not represent entire universe. CD hierarchy in well-defined sense replaces entire universe with that defined by space-time surfaces within CD.

Sensory input is associated with the boundary of CD at which state function reduction occurs. This predicts that we experience world as 3-D sensorily. This is what happens. One can only say that the quantum data are contained at the ends of space-time surface and by strong holography to
the partonic 2-surfaces. The concrete translation of quantum data to sensory perception requires the other side of holography. Fields, frequencies, etc at space-time surface.

Interesting question about preparations. Just now I cannot answer it without some thinking. Let us not forget it.

Ulla said...

What about a comparision to plasma in this meaning of positive and negative energy states? said...

To Ulla:

Positive and negative energy states do not relate in any manner to the properties of matter per se. The notion is new aspect of quantum theory if TGD and zero energy ontology (ZEO) are taken seriously.

I have now first real life application of TGD as square root of thermodynamics. The existing model of cell membrane is thermodynamical: Coulomb energy differences and chemical potentials over cell membrane play a key role in the description of osmosis which is essential element. Osmosis means presence of pumps and channels - various transmembrane proteins. Pollack's findings and many other discoveries challenge this model and it is not consistence with macroscopic quantum coherence.

In TGD framework this thermodynamical description should be replaced with a quantal description based on ZEO and dark matter. Square root of thermodynamics is forced by ZEO. Transmembrane potentials become geeralized Josephson junctions.

What is new that chemical potential, which dominates over Coulomb energy for proton in the model for production of ATP from ADP, is replaced with the difference of cyclotron energies over the Josephson junction. Thermodynamical distibutions are replaced with their complex square roots - essentially Schroedinger amplitudes but proportional to Boltzmann weight so that ensemble property becomes single particle property and temperature has quantum mechanical meaning
at single particle level as in p-adic thermodynamics too.

For details see the model for Pollack's findings about water which helped to end up with the description .

The model can be applied to built a model of EEG: .

Ulla said...

What about the function of antimatter in biology? I have the strong feeling it might be important. What is the relation between virtul/dark, and ordinary matter (where antimatter belong?) in biology?

The strong reactions in biology to gamma rays maybe is a link?