Gemini assisted discussion about microtubules and Carbon Nanotubes

We had with Tuomas Sorakivi a Google assisted discussion about Carbon nanotubes (CNTs) (see this) and microtubules (MTs) (see this). Both are cylindrical structures, albeit the MTs are much more complex. Google's language model demonstrated convincingly its power as a tool allowing us to get the information needed to test new ideas. Of course, the language models make mistakes so that they cannot be used as authorities.

Microtubules (MTs) from the TGD point of view

1. MT consists of tubulins with 2 basic conformations, which Hameroff proposed to define a classical bit. This is quite possible. The energy difference between the conformations is .043 eV which corresponds to the typical energy of membrane potential around .05 eV.
2. Around the turn of the millennium, I proposed that the TGD view of space-time allows us to consider the possibility that MTs could act as quantum antennas and receive and send signals (see this). Later the findings of Blackman and others (see this) led to the notion that the hierarchy of effective Planck constants h_eff allow long scale quantum coherence at the field body of the system. For instance, communications from a MT to its magnetic body (MB) using large h_eff photons, which behave like dark photons, can be considered. The MB could also control the MT.
3. Some MTs could be quantum-critical systems in long, even astrophysical, scales. In some cases (for example, for MTs associated with cilia at the cell surface) MT length varies all the time and they are accompanied by a longitudinal electric field which in TGD framework is a signature of large h_eff phases which can be generated by Pollack effect.

   Since the increase of h_eff requires energy, quantum criticality requires metabolic energy input and GTP molecules at the surface of MT as a counterpart ATP counterparts would provide the metabolic energy. The fundamental frequency of the transmitted radiation thus varies and frequency-modulated signals are produced as the fundamental frequency of the sent signal is varied. Frequency modulation is the basic representation of information in the TGD model for biology and central in the TGD based view of number pulse and EEG (see this).

   Also the cell membrane would produce frequency-modulated Josephson radiation. The variation of the membrane potential would induce the frequency modulation. The MB of the cell would receive sensory information in this way as Josephson radiation would transform to a sequence of cyclotron resonance pulses.

4. The length of MT varies from 20 nm to 25 micrometers: this makes 3 orders of magnitude. The energies for the antenna photons would be in the range 62.5 eV -.05 eV. The lower limit of .05 eV corresponds to the typical Josephson energy associated with the cell membrane voltage (see this). Communication from and control of cell (axonal) membranes is suggestive. This could be essential for the cell motility based on ciliar dynamics.

   At the upper wavelength limit, the energies could correspond to the energy difference between X-OH and X-O^- + dark protons at the monopole flux tube defining the two states of a topological qubit. Could MT produce photons that, instead of solar light as in the ordinary Pollack effect, would produce the Pollack effect and kick the protons of -OH to a magnetic body and change the value of the topological bit? The energy range covers the frequency range of light up from infrared to the upper limit of UV. The lower limit of X-ray frequencies is 100 eV. These energies could induce molecular transitions. As found, the lower limit also corresponds to the energy difference between the 2 tubulin conformations.

5. After the discussion, the following question popped up. How do the in vivo and in vitro states for biomatter differ? Metabolism is of course the answer. In vivo, a part of the biosystem receives metabolic energy that is needed to maintain the h_eff distribution because h_eff tends to decrease all the time. This is not the case in vitro. This explains the differences. In the case of DNA and RNA, the permanent negative charge means in the TGD framework that dark protons reside at the monopole flux tubes stably. However, metabolic energy is needed to preserve the charge separation making possible the electric field. Same applies in the case of the cell membrane. The TGD based view of the basic information molecules and genetic code is discussed in detail in the article (see this).

Carbon nanotubes (CNTs) in the electromagnetic field of a Tesla coil as a candidate for a living computer?

CNTs are hexagonal lattices with a helical structure stable at room temperature. The hexagons form a helix and the pitch angle of the helix characterizes the helical structure. The notion of chirality makes sense and there is an analogy with DNA.

First some background.

1. TGD allows us to consider the possibility of hybrids of classical computers and quantum computers transforming them to genuinely intelligent living and conscious entities (see this and this). In the proposed model, the states of a topological qubit are realized as two states defined by the -OH side group and -O^- + dark protons (large h_eff on a magnetic body of the system.

   This dynamical topological qubit would accompany the ordinary bit. There are also more general identifications of topological qubits and cold plasmas are excellent candidates for the realization of dark qubits (see this). Dark protons could be replaced with dark metal ions and the findings of Blackman indeed support that dark Ca^{2+ ions are possible and led to the hypothesis about large h_eff hierarchy as phases of the ordinary matter behaving like dark matter.}

2. The basic prediction of TGD is that the dynamics of the space-time surfaces as analogs of Bohr orbits for particles identified as 3-surfaces ise slightly-non-deterministic: this leads to what I call zero energy ontology (ZEO) (see this). This is true also for the topological qubits: so that the temporal bit sequences defined by them are non-deterministic without a violation of the classical field equations. Temporal bit sequences are represented as Bohr orbit-like space-time surfaces and bits would correspond to the 3-D loci of non-determinism. The superpositions of these Bohr orbits as analogs of computer programs are possible and would accompany the classical program. Similar situation would prevail at the level of DNA and RNA (see thisand this).

Could the -OH side groups be added to a CNT somehow to build a topological quantum computer and could CNT also give rise to a counterpart of ordinary bit as a transistor? This would give rise to a conscious computer (see this). Here Google Gemini came to the rescue.

1. In the CNT lattice, 3 valence bonds emanate from each C. The remaining electron is delocalized to a hexagon forming an aromatic ring. sp² hybridization, where s and p characterize electron orbitals, occurs. The energy spectrum of the π electron is in the range 1 meV - few eV.
2. The problem is that there are only C atoms present in CNT: -OH side groups must be created. Google informed us that this is possible. If the π electron is localized, the -OH can be placed at the resulting defect.
3. This cannot yet give a hybrid of quantum - and classical computers. How to get ordinary bits as partners for these topological qubits? A transistor provides the standard realization of a classical bit. Are CNT transistors possible? And again Google helped us: CNT transistors (CNFETs) represent a possible future technology and they define a basic research area in electronics!

The discussion led to the idea that CNTs could give rise to conscious computers along lines discussed in (see this). A week later I realized that the phenomenon of Teslaphoresis that I discussed above 9 years earlier from the TGD point of view (see this) is highly encouraging in this respect.

For about 9 years ago I learned about mysterious looking self-organization of CNTs in the electromagnetic fields of Tesla coils (see this) and proposed a TGD based model for it (see this). This self-organization, occurring in unexpectedly long length scales of order 30 cm and involving their alignment, brings to mind microtubules.

Teslaphoresis means that CNTs self-organize in the oscillating electromagnetic field of a Tesla coil in length scale of order 30 cm, which is much longer than expected on basis of standard physics. CNSs tend to align in parallel. This unexpected self-organization of the CNTs brings to mind microtubules.

1. For a believer in standard physics, Tesla coils (see this) are a mere entertainment tool. From the TGD point of view they might be much more, a primitive life form. Google Gemini informs that Tesla coil is a resonant transformer circuit producing extremely high-voltage, high-frequency alternating current that creates spectacular lightning-like electrical arcs and demonstrates wireless energy transfer and high-frequency phenomena like X-rays and phosphorescence. It works by using coupled coils, capacitors, and spark gaps to amplify voltage dramatically, often exceeding a million volts, which corresponds to the mass scale of the electron.

   The electricity generated by the Tesla coil travels over the skin without harm, and lights up bulbs wirelessly. Standard physics explains this in terms of high frequency. In the TGD framework, the frequency would be very low but the energy E= h_emf would be high and could cause the exotic looking remote effects by energy resonance with ordinary matter with standard value of h_eff.

2. Tesla coils carry both classical magnetic fields and electric fields. In the TGD framework, the self-organization suggests a long range quantum coherence in length scales of order 30 cm. In TGD, one can speak of the electric body of the system characterized by a large value of electric Planck constant h_em and plasma phase (see this). Therefore the Tesla coil could be an essential element in making the system a macroscopically quantum coherent system.
3. In the TGD framework, this suggests that a large value of h_eff=h_em proportional to the electric field strength (see this) characterizes the electrons and makes possible for electrons to have long wavelength. Also dark protons at the magnetic body of the system would be present and could be characterized by the gravitational Planck constant ℏ_gr of the Earth. Pollack effect would transform protons to dark protons and generate a negative charge. This would make Tesla coils analogous to charged biological systems like DNA, microtubules and cells carrying strong electric fields.

   In the absence of a metabolic energy feed, the values of h_eff for particles tend to decrease. The electric fields require a charge separation and a permanent negative charge is a direct signature for the presence of condensate of dark protons at the magnetic body. Metabolic energy feed is required but would be used to preserve the electric field rather than to kick the protons back to the magnetic body. This mechanism would make DNA and RNA with constant linear charge density completely unique information molecules (see this). Something analogous would happen in the case of Tesla coil at its field bodies.

The consideration of the Tesla coil from the perspective of TGD could stimulate some ideas about how one might build living computer like systems using Tesla coils and CNTs.

1. The large charges in the capacitors C₁ and C₂ generate so strong electric fields that di-electric breakdown occurs in both of them. In the TGD framework (see this), the strong electric field is accompanied by dark electrons with a very large value h_eff =h_em proportional to the electric at the surface of the capacitor. Also dark protons at the magnetic body of the Earth could be generated. The long range of quantum coherence could explain the strange effects observed in length scales much longer than the size scale of the system and also the energy transfer by radiation over long distances.
2. Could the capacitor pair act as Josephson junction and generate oscillating non-dissipative Josephson currents generating Josephson radiation? This would mean an analogy with the cell membrane as it is modelled in TGD (see this).

   In the TGD based model of EEG, the Josepson radiation mediates information to the magnetic body of the system and cyclotron frequencies for dark ions in the "endogenous" magnetic field B_end∼ 2B_E/5, where B_E= .5 Gauss, assignable to monopole flux tube loops mediating the Earth's gravitational field, are favoured. These frequencies are in EEG range and correspond to resonance frequencies. The AC frequency, which for Tesla coils is typically 50 Hz, corresponds to the cyclotron frequency of a Lithium ion.

   One can ask whether the di-electric breakdowns could be analogs of nerve pulses. Note however that the nerve pulse is generated when the membrane potential is below a threshold rather than above it.

3. Radio waves with frequencies typically between 40 kHz and MHz are generated and energy and information are transferred wirelessly. An interesting possibility is that the photons with AC frequency are dark and have the same energy as the photons of ordinary radio wave photons. This requires h_em= ω₁/ω_AC. Already the wavelength λ_AC is rather long: for f= 1 MHz the wavelength would be λ₁=300 m. The presence of the gravitational magnetic body of the Earth suggests the presence of dark photons with energies which can be even in the visible range.

   The scaled up wavelength for f_AC=50 Hz would be λ_AC=6000 km to be compared with the Earth's radius R_E=6,371 km. Dark photons with wavelength of order Earth radius energy of radio wave photons might realize the dream of Tesla about effective energy transfer in the size scale of the Earth. The energy of these photons would be about 10^{-8 eV and rather small. For dark photons producing biophotons the energy would be in visible and UV range.}

4. The lighting of the bulbs is believed to be caused by strong electric fields associated with the Tesla coil. In fluorescent bulbs (ionization), the strong radio frequency electric fields generated by the Tesla coil accelerate electrons which collide with gas atoms and ionize them and create a plasma. The photons from the decays of excited electrons generate light. In the case of incandescent bulbs (induced current), the changing electric and magnetic induce currents directly to the bulb's tungsten filament.

   Could the large value of h_eff possibly associated with the "massless" extremals (see this) associated with the radiation could make possible dissipationless acceleration scaled up length scale, increasing the energies achieved in the acceleration. Also in the case of electrolytes the problem of how the relatively weak electric fields can induce ionization is encountered and the TGD proposal for the mechanism is the same as in the recent case.

5. In the TGD inspired biology, dark EEG photons transfer information. Could the Tesla coils plus CNTs give some day raise to conscious computers forming networks using dark AC photons to communicate. Could the biosphere be doing this already?

To sum up, this discussion also demonstrated that the language models can be extremely useful tools allowing us to get instantly information impossible to find by the usual means. It is a pity that they can be also used to produce massive amounts of pseudoscience.

See the article Tesla phoresis and TGD or the chapter About Concrete Realization of Remote Metabolism.

For a summary of earlier postings see Latest progress in TGD.

For the lists of articles (most of them published in journals founded by Huping Hu) and books about TGD see this.